Curse

iToasterHD · Dec 19, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I have recently started using a Mesmer in PvE and I have been trying to decide on which attribute line I should focus on. Domination or Illusion?

While playing through the game, I have found generally that Domination is anti-caster and Illusion is Anti-melee. So I am asking which is more important to take down? Casters or melee? Or does Domination have enough of both to be worth using over Illusion?

Right now I have been using a Domination build that focuses primarily on AoE damage. However, I am not sure if I am using my Mesmer to her full potential.

P.S. I recognize that Mesmers are considered not the best for PvE, and while that may be true I am certainly not going to accept it until I am convinced by either sound evidence or I become exhausted trying to prove it wrong.

When I get a chance I will post my current build for judgment as well as additional ides.

*EDIT*

10 Fast Casting
14 Domination
10 Inspiration

Drain Enchantment, Empathy, Mistrust, Auspicious Incantation, Cry of Pain, Signet of Corruption, Visions of Regret and Arcane Echo.

Weapon: 40/40 set

Thank you.

Hugh Manatee · Dec 19, 2009, 04:00 AM // 04:00

They both seem to have anti melee or anti caster stuff in decent proportions.

As long as you're exploiting the stupidity of PvE mobs, it really doesn't matter, they both seem effective. They will attack through empathy, clumsiness, and ineptitude and cast htrough backfire, VoR and guilt/shame. It really depends on what the biggest threats in the zone are, and you'll be re-building accordingly for each area. If there's a tough melee boss like shiro, or a tough caster like one of the djin bosses or a monk like joss essa in thirsty river, you know what you got to do.

Here's some interesting stuff I've used that seems to work ok:

Glyph of Immolation
Fevered Dreams
Fragility
Accumulated Pain
Cry of Pain

fill in the rest with whatever optional stuff you need and energy support, works well in areas with fleshies and with a ranger to spam conditions.

Arcane Languor
Frustration
Guilt
Shame
Diversion
any choice interrupt(i like p-drain)
any choice interrupt(power spike or power leak, maybe leech sig)
Aneurysm

See aneurysm counts exhaustion as energy lost, but it won't be able to return it, so basically if you get a caster to shoot a few spells(the exhaust still applies if it gets interrupted or fails via shame/guilt), exhaust out it's energy, then you can bake it for 300+ damage every few seconds. The idea is you make it fail to attack with your interrupts, it then takes damage via frustration while this happens, then you cook it with aneurysm when it's ready. Good for frustrating caster bosses.

Also a note on frustration, the damage is dealt on any interrupt, no matter what they were doing, attacking casting ect, so combined with a ranger, or incorporated into any interrupt heavy bar you add +40 some odd damage to each hit. Like VS shiro for example, you can put frustration on him, then clumsiness, then use sig of clumsiness, then clumsiness again, while having a ranger spam savage shot. That's how I beat him at least.

Raela79 · Dec 19, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

See aneurysm counts exhaustion as energy lost, but it won't be able to return it, so basically if you get a caster to shoot a few spells(the exhaust still applies if it gets interrupted or fails via shame/guilt), exhaust out it's energy, then you can bake it for 300+ damage every few seconds. The idea is you make it fail to attack with your interrupts, it then takes damage via frustration while this happens, then you cook it with aneurysm when it's ready. Good for frustrating caster bosses.

Thanks for pointing this out

upier · Dec 19, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

How about putting the Inspiration points into Illusion and grabbing a high energy set instead? You are not going to be spamming skills - so you probably won't have that much issues managing your energy.
Or if you really want to use some e-management - GoLE.

iToasterHD · Dec 19, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

So far great ideas. I have a question regarding sort of what you are suggesting.

In PvE, killing lots of foes is best. AoE is the preferred method, but Spirit Spammer proved that killing single targets VERY fast is also effective when coupled with body blocking.

So one idea with Mesmer, I was thinking, was instead of AoE damage was killing one target super fast and preventing them from casting/attacking. Then moving to the next target.

Am I correct in assuming that this is both an effective and efficient method for PvE? Or is it just doable, like so many other weak builds in PvE?

EDIT

Oh and Hugh, what attributes are you running?

HigherMinion · Dec 19, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

AoE is prefered, yes. However VoR is a little weak because you have to hang around for VoR to activate; and it's weaker with more mesmer hexes in your build- which I never understood the point of.

I like running either Assassin Spamming promise builds or Fevered Dreams.

Fevered Dreams is brilliant to play in PUGs as a mesmer; try this.

Fevered Dreams.
Fragility.
You Move Like A Dwarf.
Ash Blast.
Ebonvanguard Assassin Support.
Finish Him/Cry of Pain/You Are All Weaklings (Your choice really, all good options.)
for energy I like to use Kitah's Burden and Drain Delusions; but it's your choice also.

iToasterHD · Dec 19, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

I never got feedback on the build I had made:

10 Fast Casting
14 Domination
10 Inspiration

Drain Enchantment
Empathy
Mistrust
Cry of Pain
Auspicious Incantation
Signet of Corruption
Visions of Regret
Arcane Echo

I will be trying out the builds mentioned above, but as far as AoE I think I was relatively successful... Right?

HigherMinion · Dec 19, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

I never got feedback on the build I had made:

10 Fast Casting
14 Domination
10 Inspiration

Drain Enchantment
Empathy
Mistrust
Cry of Pain
Auspicious Incantation
Signet of Corruption
Visions of Regret
Arcane Echo

I will be trying out the builds mentioned above, but as far as AoE I think I was relatively successful... Right?

It looks like a solid enough build, yeah. Not messed too much with mesmers; but I wouldn't be taking Empathy- it would only weaken VoR.

If the other hex was in aid of another hex to Drain for energy; take Kitah's Burden or a short recharging, fast casting hex. Empathy is not ideal.

What about Fragility? Assuming SOMETHING in your team must have some conditions to lay off.

Cuilan · Dec 19, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

However VoR is [...] weaker with more mesmer hexes in your build- which I never understood the point of.

If the mesmer is aware of timing and who has what, it shouldn't be a problem. It hasn't been for me.

Signet of Corruption is a turd.

Auspicious Incantation your Arcane Echo.

iToasterHD · Dec 19, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Well, sort of to what both Higher and Cuilan said I was looking for a fast casting hex but couldn't really find any. As of right now I don't have the Discord Necro's so fragility isn't very helpful. And Signet of Corruption was my solution to AoE fast casting hex...

Also, I find it incredibly difficult to cast Auspicious Incantation on Arcane Echo given Echo's recharge. But I am still learning and still practicing.

Also, I use VoR on caster in group and Empathy on melee who break from group and head for mid to back lines. So they don't get hit by VoR.

Chthon · Dec 19, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I like running either Assassin Spamming promise builds or Fevered Dreams.

Fevered Dreams is brilliant to play in PUGs as a mesmer; try this.

Fevered Dreams.
Fragility.
You Move Like A Dwarf.
Ash Blast.
Ebonvanguard Assassin Support.
Finish Him/Cry of Pain/You Are All Weaklings (Your choice really, all good options.)
for energy I like to use Kitah's Burden and Drain Delusions; but it's your choice also.

The Ruby Djinn summon is also a solid choice for a PvE skill. His immolate gives you burning with just enough down time to keep Fragility flipping over and FD kicking off more dazed (which flips Fragility even more).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Arcane Languor
...
Aneurysm

See aneurysm counts exhaustion as energy lost, but it won't be able to return it, so basically if you get a caster to shoot a few spells(the exhaust still applies if it gets interrupted or fails via shame/guilt), exhaust out it's energy, then you can bake it for 300+ damage every few seconds.

To do even 120 damage, the monster would have to survive under AL long enough to cast 4 spells. I'm not sure I want to leave monsters alive that long as a prerequisite for my build to start doing meaningful damage. This strikes me as a dedicated-party-slot-for-a-BIG-boss-fight build only.

HigherMinion · Dec 19, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

To do even 120 damage, the monster would have to survive under AL long enough to cast 4 spells. I'm not sure I want to leave monsters alive that long as a prerequisite for my build to start doing meaningful damage. This strikes me as a dedicated-party-slot-for-a-BIG-boss-fight build only.

You need spellbreaker! haha.

Xenomortis · Dec 19, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The Ruby Djinn summon is also a solid choice for a PvE skill. His immolate gives you burning with just enough down time to keep Fragility flipping over and FD kicking off more dazed (which flips Fragility even more).

Meh. Never really liked having to depend on the AI to provide conditions. Particularly a squishy summon. Although it should work and if it were reliable enough could fuel Steam without GoI. I still prefer YMLAD + Ash Blast though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Fevered Dreams.
Fragility.
You Move Like A Dwarf.
Ash Blast.
Ebonvanguard Assassin Support.
Finish Him/Cry of Pain/You Are All Weaklings (Your choice really, all good options.)
for energy I like to use Kitah's Burden and Drain Delusions; but it's your choice also.

EVAS? The sin doesn't provide any conditions and the 30 second recharge is a killer without AP or something to reduce the recharge.
You would also be mad not to bring Finish Him with Fevered Dreams. A reliable source of weakness cannot be lightly passed up either.

Personally, I generally dislike Mesmers. They can run Ebon Sin spam builds very effectively though.

Chthon · Dec 20, 2009, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Meh. Never really liked having to depend on the AI to provide conditions. Particularly a squishy summon. Although it should work and if it were reliable enough could fuel Steam without GoI. I still prefer YMLAD + Ash Blast though.

I find it surprisingly reliable at following my calls. I don't think the timing is good enough to Steam things reliably though.

GoI on the main bar really, really kills energy. Maybe I'll try it again and see if I can make it work.

Quote:

EVAS? The sin doesn't provide any conditions and the 30 second recharge is a killer without AP or something to reduce the recharge.

I agree. It's not too strong in this build.

Quote:

You would also be mad not to bring Finish Him with Fevered Dreams.

Agreed.

Quote:

A reliable source of weakness cannot be lightly passed up either.

The blind pretty much makes weakness redundant. In any event, your party's almost sure to have a curse necro who's got weakness covered anyway.

HigherMinion · Dec 20, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

EVAS? The sin doesn't provide any conditions and the 30 second recharge is a killer without AP or something to reduce the recharge.
You would also be mad not to bring Finish Him with Fevered Dreams. A reliable source of weakness cannot be lightly passed up either.

Oh yeah, I forgot I had EVAS on my build only because I didn't have Finish Him, and got a little idle as I wrote that... You're right, of course. Scrap eVAS for FH and Summon djinn if they target your calls. If not then.... nfigbguighnwegwb.

Daenara · Dec 22, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

That's really a discussion for another thread tbh - completely offtopic in this thread , despite the good points raised. Please stay on topic, if you'd like to discuss the pro's and cons try another thread.

The Drunkard · Dec 24, 2009, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

I have recently started using a Mesmer in PvE and I have been trying to decide on which attribute line I should focus on. Domination or Illusion?

While playing through the game, I have found generally that Domination is anti-caster and Illusion is Anti-melee. So I am asking which is more important to take down? Casters or melee? Or does Domination have enough of both to be worth using over Illusion?

Right now I have been using a Domination build that focuses primarily on AoE damage. However, I am not sure if I am using my Mesmer to her full potential.

P.S. I recognize that Mesmers are considered not the best for PvE, and while that may be true I am certainly not going to accept it until I am convinced by either sound evidence or I become exhausted trying to prove it wrong.

Illusion is really,REALLY weak aside from fragility builds. The recharge and high-energy costs for weak antimeels skills that illusion offers aren't worth it.

With dom you don't have to use anti-caster spells like backfire to be considered anti-caster. Keep in mind that monsters always auto-attack when they aren't casting, so empathy and vor are usefull in some situations.

AP also helps greatly with the recharge of spells. When I run a EBVaS I put guilt on my bar, because I can do a small kdchain+huge dps on one monster while using guilt (or shame) to keep another from harming my team

Hugh Manatee · Dec 24, 2009, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I forgot, Signet of Illusions. It's fun with the PvE skills as you can get beyond the max rank of the titles they're tied to. You get like 16 Illusion and all those asuran skills get way the heck more fun. The standards, Snow Storm, and others are cool too, but the asuran stuff is just fun.

Quote:

To do even 120 damage, the monster would have to survive under AL long enough to cast 4 spells. I'm not sure I want to leave monsters alive that long as a prerequisite for my build to start doing meaningful damage. This strikes me as a dedicated-party-slot-for-a-BIG-boss-fight build only.

It sorta is, I haven't run it in awhile, but usually when I dungeon crawl with H&H I let them fight their way to the end guy, me doing my interrupt thing, then I come in guns blazing VS the big bad guy. As said, they get exhausted even if they try and fail to cast, which is what should be your role till you see the numbers you want from aneurysm, just get guilt and shame out asap and watch for your chance to interrupt.